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[PHP] New to PHP

Posted by Gary 
Gary
[PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 04:50PM
I am just starting to learn php, and typically I use newsgroups to
suppliment the learning process.

Does anyone have any sources that you would reccommend to me and is this the
best NG for me to monitor?...or is there another you might suggest?

Thanks

Gary



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Wolf
Re: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 05:20PM
---- Gary <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well...thank you all for the warm and friendly welcome, I will probably try
> to steer one of my projects to php (or at least a portion of) in a short
> while.
>
<!-- SNIP -->

Gary, one thing to keep in mind is to BOTTOM POST and TRIM your posts.

By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives greater context as you read through the previous posts and by the time of getting to where the new response is, it is in sync. No skipping back and forth to read to get the context.

Trimming is appropriate when addressing a specific entry or when cutting off Dan's 12 line signature block to reply to a message. ;)

And yeah, you'll find a number of us aren't as serious as others may like. :)

Welcome to the list. I also keep www.php.net handy and a general rule of thumb when using Firefox if you have the google search plug-in running is to use "php: <question>" where <question> is what you are looking to do. By prefacing the search with php: google tends to give greater responses since it looks for PHP first and then the question.

HTH.
Wolf

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TG
Re: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 05:50PM
I don't want to get into a bottom vs top posting debate. Just know that some
of us prefer top posting. There's no right/wrong answer to this.

Trimming is always good, though.

I second the recommendations for this mailing list as a good source (as well
as reading what's posted and seeing if you know or can find out the answer)
as well as php.net. The online documentation has tons of great code
examples.

The best way to learn is really by doing. Think of a project or exercise
you'd like to try and see if you can do it in PHP.

One of the best things you can learn as you go, is when it's appropriate to
use PHP and when it isn't. Sometimes you can solve your problems with
simple HTML. PHP can be useful in many situations, though. Simple
situations to some very complex ones.

Also, if you come from a programming background, chances are PHP will
accomodate whatever programming style you're used to but also remember that
there are so many pre-made functions in PHP to do so many things, you may
end up discovering that a function you thought you had to write could be
done with a simple PHP command.

I worked with a guy once who came from a C programming background. He wrote
many functions that he didn't need to because he assumed PHP was as sparse
as a "real programming language".

At any rate, you'll learn tons as you go along and probably look back at your
early efforts and say "What was I thinking?". Don't worry about it, comes
with the territory.

-TG

----- Original Message -----
From: Wolf <[email protected]>
To: Gary <[email protected]>
Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:18:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP

>
> ---- Gary <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Well...thank you all for the warm and friendly welcome, I will probably
try
> > to steer one of my projects to php (or at least a portion of) in a short
> > while.
> >
> <!-- SNIP -->
>
> Gary, one thing to keep in mind is to BOTTOM POST and TRIM your posts.
>
> By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives greater
context as you read through the previous posts and by the time of getting
to where the new response is, it is in sync. No skipping back and forth to
read to get the context.
>
> Trimming is appropriate when addressing a specific entry or when cutting
off Dan's 12 line signature block to reply to a message. ;)
>
> And yeah, you'll find a number of us aren't as serious as others may like.
:)
>
> Welcome to the list. I also keep www.php.net handy and a general rule of
thumb when using Firefox if you have the google search plug-in running is
to use "php: <question>" where <question> is what you are looking to do.
By prefacing the search with php: google tends to give greater responses
since it looks for PHP first and then the question.
>
> HTH.
> Wolf


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Micah Gersten
Re: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 05:50PM
The problem with bottom posting is that if you follow the conversation,
you have to scroll to find the new content. I guess if you trim and
bottom post it's not so bad.

Thank you,
Micah Gersten
onShore Networks
Internal Developer
http://www.onshore.com



Wolf wrote:
> By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives greater context as you read through the previous posts and by the time of getting to where the new response is, it is in sync. No skipping back and forth to read to get the context.
>
>

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Wolf
Re: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 05:55PM
---- Micah Gersten <[email protected]> wrote:
> The problem with bottom posting is that if you follow the conversation,
> you have to scroll to find the new content. I guess if you trim and
> bottom post it's not so bad.
>
> Thank you,
> Micah Gersten
> onShore Networks
> Internal Developer
> http://www.onshore.com
>
>
>
> Wolf wrote:
> > By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives greater context as you read through the previous posts and by the time of getting to where the new response is, it is in sync. No skipping back and forth to read to get the context.
> >
>

Until very recently, everyone was up to speed and trimmed/bottom posted. It does make for better contextual understanding. Otherwise you have to scroll to the bottom and read UP to make sense of the whole of a Post.

Wolf

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Juan Jose Rosales Rodriguez
RE: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 05:55PM
Hola.

"No son los a
Juan Jose Rosales Rodriguez
RE: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 06:05PM
Ok thank you, i try learn yor post, and make meny aport, for the list, apologize me for my english, i am new in this theme but in php i have experience.

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Jay Blanchard
RE: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 06:10PM
[snip]
I don't want to get into a bottom vs top posting debate. Just know that
some of us prefer top posting. There's no right/wrong answer to this.
[/snip]

Consider how this would read if I posted above your entry.

But I have trimmed quite nicely thank you! :)



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Stut
Re: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 06:25PM
On 13 Oct 2008, at 16:48, Micah Gersten wrote:
> Wolf wrote:
>> By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives
>> greater context as you read through the previous posts and by the
>> time of getting to where the new response is, it is in sync. No
>> skipping back and forth to read to get the context.
>
> The problem with bottom posting is that if you follow the
> conversation,
> you have to scroll to find the new content. I guess if you trim and
> bottom post it's not so bad.

The major benefit of bottom posting is providing easy-to-read context
to each message. This is important for those of us on many lists, for
times when you missed an earlier part of a conversation or when people
are reading your messages in archives.

At the end of the day it's beneficial to the community at large if
each individual message can stand on its own. Judicious trimming and
bottom-posting ensures this and makes list archives more valuable as a
reference for Googlers.

Of course that's just my opinion and I know many people disagree but
on this issue discussion is generally pointless since it's a religious
bike shed.

Praise FSM!

-Stut

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Daniel Brown
Re: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 06:25PM
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:45 AM, TG <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't want to get into a bottom vs top posting debate. Just know that some
> of us prefer top posting. There's no right/wrong answer to this.

There is no debate. There is a right and wrong answer. Sometimes
people just need a refresher.

http://www.php.net/reST/php-src/README.MAILINGLIST_RULES

QUOTE:
3. Do not top post. Place your answer underneath anyone you wish to
quote and remove any previous comment that is not relevant to your
post.

This is also addressed in the "Netiquette" RFC (1855).

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Wolf
Re: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 06:25PM
---- Daniel Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:45 AM, TG <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I don't want to get into a bottom vs top posting debate. Just know that some
> > of us prefer top posting. There's no right/wrong answer to this.
>
> There is no debate. There is a right and wrong answer. Sometimes
> people just need a refresher.
>
> http://www.php.net/reST/php-src/README.MAILINGLIST_RULES
>
> QUOTE:
> 3. Do not top post. Place your answer underneath anyone you wish to
> quote and remove any previous comment that is not relevant to your
> post.
>
> This is also addressed in the "Netiquette" RFC (1855).

See, and when you reply, make sure to cut the 10 lines of dan's sig file off.

Well said Dan! :)

Wolf

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Boyd, Todd M.
RE: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 06:30PM
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Micah Gersten [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 10:49 AM
> To: PHP General
> Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP
>
> The problem with bottom posting is that if you follow the conversation,
> you have to scroll to find the new content. I guess if you trim and
> bottom post it's not so bad.
>
> Wolf wrote:
> > By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives
> greater context as you read through the previous posts and by the time
> of getting to where the new response is, it is in sync. No skipping
> back and forth to read to get the context.

The list, however, disagrees with you:

3. Do not top post. Place your answer underneath anyone you wish to quote and remove any previous comment that is not relevant to your post.

That is taken from http://us3.php.net/reST/php-src/README.MAILINGLIST_RULES . Sure, it's labeled as "more of a guideline"... but it is irrefutable proof that yes, the mailing list rules DO discuss top posting--and they frown on it.

As for having to scroll to read the new content--first of all, you sound very lazy. Second of all, it shouldn't be that big of a deal if people are properly trimming their messages.

I might also note:

7. Please configure your email client to use a real name and keep message signatures to a maximum of 2 lines if at all necessary.

*cough* ;)


Todd Boyd
Web Programmer
TG
Re: [PHP] New to PHP
October 13, 2008 06:35PM
The problem with pointing out the pros and cons is that it will lead to
another holy war. :)

----- Original Message -----
From: Micah Gersten <[email protected]>
To: PHP General <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 10:48:34 -0500
Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP

> The problem with bottom posting is that if you follow the conversation,
> you have to scroll to find the new content. I guess if you trim and
> bottom post it's not so bad.
>
> Thank you,
> Micah Gersten
> onShore Networks
> Internal Developer
> http://www.onshore.com
>
>
>
> Wolf wrote:
> > By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives greater
context as you read through the previous posts and by the time of getting
to where the new response is, it is in sync. No skipping back and forth to
read to get the context.


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Ben Stones
Re: [PHP] New to PHP
October 14, 2008 03:00PM
There are many places to get help when you need it, but a good place is the
unofficial PHP IRC channel. Search on Google for XChat, download it, and
connect to ##PHP in irc.freenode.net. Great place and it seriously has
helped me once or twice. If you don't know about how to use IRC, search on
Google :).

The best bet to grasping PHP logic itself is finding small scripts to learn
and tamper with. Go to www.hotscripts.com and find some unhelpful scripts
from there that you can learn from and modify. Best way of learning PHP
really :). If you are only just starting, tizag.com is a good place to learn
the basics.

Good luck!

2008/10/13 Gary <[email protected]>

> I am just starting to learn php, and typically I use newsgroups to
> suppliment the learning process.
>
> Does anyone have any sources that you would reccommend to me and is this
> the
> best NG for me to monitor?...or is there another you might suggest?
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary
>
>
>
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> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
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