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[PHP-DEV] Forum software

Posted by Andrea Faulds 
Andrea Faulds
[PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 04:50PM
As something of a response to "Wake up", perhaps some sort of "forum"
system for discussion would beat the mailing list. We wouldn't eradicate
the mailing list, but discussions could also take place there if people
wished to.

I'm thinking, in particular, of something à la Reddit.com or Hacker
News, by which I mean has hierarchical replies with an upvote/downvote
system. The first advantage of such a system over the current one is
that it organises things so that you can see which post replied to which
(aiding readability). This would mean that related things are visually
grouped. It also allows you to express approval or disapproval of a
post, so you can then have it automatically sort by approval, such that
posts with the most "upvotes" float to the top. This is the second
advantage, in that it shows which opinions are most favoured. This
usually enables more productive discussions, because the "trend" as such
is much clearer.

As I've already said, I don't think this would entirely replace the
mailing list. But I'd like to see such a system in place as an
alternative to the mailing list for discussions. Perhaps the software
could be implemented such that all posts and replies on it would also be
sent to the mailing list in the appropriate format, so that people
reading the mailing list could still see what was going on.

Thoughts?

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Leszek Krupiński
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:00PM
On Sep 11, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Andrea Faulds <[email protected]> wrote:

> As something of a response to "Wake up", perhaps some sort of "forum" system for discussion would beat the mailing list. We wouldn't eradicate the mailing list, but discussions could also take place there if people wished to.

-1 - that would split discussions and force people interested in the subject to look at two sources.

--Leszek
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Andrea Faulds
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:00PM
On 11/09/2013 15:42, Leszek Krupiński wrote:
> -1 - that would split discussions and force people interested in the
> subject to look at two sources. --Leszek
I actually had a solution to that:

>Perhaps the software could be implemented such that all posts and
replies on it would also be sent to the mailing list in the appropriate
format, so that people reading the mailing list could still see what was
going on.

A web interface on top of the mailing list with an upvote/downvote layer
could provide this, so long as it's intelligent enough. This way, people
would still be able to use the mailing list directly, but could also
look at the web view with its hierarchical format and upvotes and
downvotes. It also means people could use the web interface exclusively
if they wished.

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John Betley
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:00PM
I'm in full support of this idea. In order to have more meaningful and on
topic discussions, we have to provide ourselves with the means and tools to
do so. I think having a forum would be excellent.

Matthieu Napoli also suggested Discourse (http://www.discourse.org/) from
the people at StackOverflow (which I'm sure we've all used).


On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Andrea Faulds <[email protected]> wrote:

> As something of a response to "Wake up", perhaps some sort of "forum"
> system for discussion would beat the mailing list. We wouldn't eradicate
> the mailing list, but discussions could also take place there if people
> wished to.
>
> I'm thinking, in particular, of something à la Reddit.com or Hacker News,
> by which I mean has hierarchical replies with an upvote/downvote system.
> The first advantage of such a system over the current one is that it
> organises things so that you can see which post replied to which (aiding
> readability). This would mean that related things are visually grouped. It
> also allows you to express approval or disapproval of a post, so you can
> then have it automatically sort by approval, such that posts with the most
> "upvotes" float to the top. This is the second advantage, in that it shows
> which opinions are most favoured. This usually enables more productive
> discussions, because the "trend" as such is much clearer.
>
> As I've already said, I don't think this would entirely replace the
> mailing list. But I'd like to see such a system in place as an alternative
> to the mailing list for discussions. Perhaps the software could be
> implemented such that all posts and replies on it would also be sent to the
> mailing list in the appropriate format, so that people reading the mailing
> list could still see what was going on.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Andrea Faulds
> http://ajf.me/
>
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
Levi Morrison
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:00PM
> Thoughts?


There are others besides me who also would go down this route. In any case,
voting comments up and down is a means of allowing people to participate
without necessarily posting their opinion. If I agree with something
someone else said and have nothing else to add then a simple +1 is the most
useful thing because anything more will add noise.
Derick Rethans
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:00PM
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013, Andrea Faulds wrote:

> As something of a response to "Wake up", perhaps some sort of "forum"
> system for discussion would beat the mailing list. We wouldn't
> eradicate the mailing list, but discussions could also take place
> there if people wished to.

That is a terrible idea. This is the perfect way to separate parts of
the community resulting in even larger mess trying to consolidate
discussions. On top of that, with a forum you never know whether there
is new communication waiting for you without having to actively check
all the time. Forums are a useless discussion platform.

cheers,
Derick

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Lester Caine
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:00PM
Andrea Faulds wrote:
> As I've already said, I don't think this would entirely replace the mailing
> list. But I'd like to see such a system in place as an alternative to the
> mailing list for discussions. Perhaps the software could be implemented such
> that all posts and replies on it would also be sent to the mailing list in the
> appropriate format, so that people reading the mailing list could still see what
> was going on.

That used to be what Yahoo egroups provided until someone decided that it was
'old fashioned' and re-write the web user interface. :( They seem to have
forgotten that 'plain text' is still a valid format, and now html messages get
displayed in longhand on emails. The email interface on some forum packages is
next to useless, but when it is provided properly then the question is asked
"What has changed?". I have all the traffic on this list since 2004 all
reasonably threaded and with a few 'nasty' messages deleted. Putting that onto a
website does not give you anything really, except you have to keep monitoring a
few dozen websites rather than JUST looking in your single email list.

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Andrea Faulds
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:10PM
On 11/09/2013 16:02, Lester Caine wrote:
>
> That used to be what Yahoo egroups provided until someone decided that
> it was 'old fashioned' and re-write the web user interface. :( They seem
> to have forgotten that 'plain text' is still a valid format, and now
> html messages get displayed in longhand on emails. The email interface
> on some forum packages is next to useless, but when it is provided
> properly then the question is asked "What has changed?". I have all the
> traffic on this list since 2004 all reasonably threaded and with a few
> 'nasty' messages deleted. Putting that onto a website does not give you
> anything really, except you have to keep monitoring a few dozen websites
> rather than JUST looking in your single email list.
>

No, I'd argue the hierarchical view and upvote/downvote system adds
significant advantages. Just look at what the latter alone has done to
PHP documentation comments: now the most useful, and (hopefully) least
absolutely terrible ideas security-wise are the top.

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Leszek Krupiński
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:10PM
On Sep 11, 2013, at 10:44 AM, Andrea Faulds <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 11/09/2013 15:42, Leszek Krupiński wrote:
>> -1 - that would split discussions and force people interested in the subject to look at two sources. --Leszek
> I actually had a solution to that:
>
> >Perhaps the software could be implemented such that all posts and replies on it would also be sent to the mailing list in the appropriate format, so that people reading the mailing list could still see what was going on.
>
> A web interface on top of the mailing list with an upvote/downvote layer could provide this, so long as it's intelligent enough. This way, people would still be able to use the mailing list directly, but could also look at the web view with its hierarchical format and upvotes and downvotes. It also means people could use the web interface exclusively if they wished.

If the forum would be a way to access the same data in a different way, it's ok. But the 'votes' remind me of "protests" on Facebook that have thousands of 'likes' but completely no impact. RFCs are a place for voting, and mailing lists are a place for expressing opinions.

--Leszek
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Andrea Faulds
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:10PM
On 11/09/2013 16:02, Leszek Krupiński wrote:
>
>
> If the forum would be a way to access the same data in a different way, it's ok. But the 'votes' remind me of "protests" on Facebook that have thousands of 'likes' but completely no impact. RFCs are a place for voting, and mailing lists are a place for expressing opinions.

>

Are you familiar with Reddit or Hacker News? Voting actually helps
discussions tremendously when coupled with the hierarchical view. For
one thing, it means that useless "+1" (or to that effect) messages are
eliminated, but more importantly, it allows effectively moderation by
the community. Nobody is muted or banned, but bad ideas or "troll" posts
get downvoted to the bottom, whilst good ideas get upvoted to the top.
Hacker News, in particular, has some very good discussions.

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John Betley
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:10PM
Agreed. But no one wants opinions that add nothing to the topic at hand or
attempt to derail the conversation. A system like this would give power to
the people who are actually trying to keep the conversation on track so
that constructive discourse can occur.


On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Leszek Krupiński <[email protected]>wrote:

>
> On Sep 11, 2013, at 10:44 AM, Andrea Faulds <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 11/09/2013 15:42, Leszek Krupiński wrote:
> >> -1 - that would split discussions and force people interested in the
> subject to look at two sources. --Leszek
> > I actually had a solution to that:
> >
> > >Perhaps the software could be implemented such that all posts and
> replies on it would also be sent to the mailing list in the appropriate
> format, so that people reading the mailing list could still see what was
> going on.
> >
> > A web interface on top of the mailing list with an upvote/downvote layer
> could provide this, so long as it's intelligent enough. This way, people
> would still be able to use the mailing list directly, but could also look
> at the web view with its hierarchical format and upvotes and downvotes. It
> also means people could use the web interface exclusively if they wished.
>
> If the forum would be a way to access the same data in a different way,
> it's ok. But the 'votes' remind me of "protests" on Facebook that have
> thousands of 'likes' but completely no impact. RFCs are a place for voting,
> and mailing lists are a place for expressing opinions.
>
> --Leszek
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>
>
Leszek Krupiński
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:20PM
On Sep 11, 2013, at 11:06 AM, Andrea Faulds <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 11/09/2013 16:02, Leszek Krupiński wrote:
>>
>>
>> If the forum would be a way to access the same data in a different way, it's ok. But the 'votes' remind me of "protests" on Facebook that have thousands of 'likes' but completely no impact. RFCs are a place for voting, and mailing lists are a place for expressing opinions.
>
>>
>
> Are you familiar with Reddit or Hacker News? Voting actually helps discussions tremendously when coupled with the hierarchical view. For one thing, it means that useless "+1" (or to that effect) messages are eliminated, but more importantly, it allows effectively moderation by the community. Nobody is muted or banned, but bad ideas or "troll" posts get downvoted to the bottom, whilst good ideas get upvoted to the top. Hacker News, in particular, has some very good discussions.

Yes, I know those sites, but don't you think that internals is a different kind of a discussion? First of all, the volume is different. We get two obvious trolls a day? Meh. On the other hand, I could downvote a person that has a different opinion than I do.

--Leszek
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Andrea Faulds
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:20PM
On 11/09/2013 16:09, Leszek Krupiński wrote:

>
> Yes, I know those sites, but don't you think that internals is a different kind of a discussion? First of all, the volume is different. We get two obvious trolls a day? Meh. On the other hand, I could downvote a person that has a different opinion than I do.
>


I think it would still help. Yes, people might sometimes downvote people
of different opinions, but they wouldn't be silenced, you'd just see the
most popular opinions first. Which might actually be quite revealing
about how people in internals think about things. Plus, even with the
downside of people downvoting different opinions, it would still be
worth it, I think, because of how it could deal with trolls.

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George Bond
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:20PM
On 11 September 2013 16:09, Leszek Krupiński <[email protected]> wrote:

> On the other hand, I could downvote a person that has a different opinion
> than I do.
>

And the negative reaction on a forum to someone doing that would be much
more visible, and much more effective at getting them to not do something
so destructive again, on an appropriately-designed interface than it is on
a mailing list. People suppressing opinions they don't like (in the
mailing list case, by fillibustering endlessly) is very much an existing
problem.

--G
Hartmut Holzgraefe
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:20PM
On 09/11/2013 04:46 PM, John Betley wrote:

> I'm in full support of this idea. In order to have more meaningful and on
> topic discussions, we have to provide ourselves with the means and tools to
> do so. I think having a forum would be excellent.

my personal experience with "we have both a forum and a mailing list"
setups was the opposite unfortunately ... this may have been due to
lack of moderation, but the main point IMHO was that having both
quickly leads to separation (by preferred workflow etc.) without
any actual improvement on either side ...

But then again this is anecdotal, not empiric ...

My greatest concern personally would be the lack of an offline option.

Not that I do matter in current affairs anymore at all, but back in the
days a lot of the work I've done on PHP code, documentation and mailing
lists and newsgroups (yes, we had working UseNet groups at some point)
has happened offline while i was sitting on long distant trains.

Especially catching up with email is something that works very well
while not being distracted by "being online"

So anything that doesn't support offline interaction would be a big
show stopper for me if I were still active here ...


PS: A forum that also supports NNTP might be a solution to the "offline"
problem. A quick search shows that this has at least been discussed
in the context of discourse.org ... from just looking over the
result pages it doesn't look as if it has actually materialized
though?

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Levi Morrison
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:20PM
> Yes, I know those sites, but don't you think that internals is a different
> kind of a discussion? First of all, the volume is different. We get two
> obvious trolls a day? Meh. On the other hand, I could downvote a person
> that has a different opinion than I do.
>

I think that it could be useful for the RFC process mainly. Sometimes
someone will dominate a discussion but if they are doing so against the
popular opinion on an issue it would significantly lower the impact of the
dominator in a voting system.
Leszek Krupiński
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:30PM
On Sep 11, 2013, at 11:16 AM, Levi Morrison <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Yes, I know those sites, but don't you think that internals is a different kind of a discussion? First of all, the volume is different. We get two obvious trolls a day? Meh. On the other hand, I could downvote a person that has a different opinion than I do.
>
> I think that it could be useful for the RFC process mainly. Sometimes someone will dominate a discussion but if they are doing so against the popular opinion on an issue it would significantly lower the impact of the dominator in a voting system.

On the other hand, that could end up being tyranny of the majority. But I'm not a fan of forums, I think reddit-like systems are not good for the discussions of the like we have on internals (for the reasons I wrote before), and that's it :) If anyone likes and wants to set up the environment that wouldn't disrupt existing discussion patterns, who can stop him or her? :)

--Leszek
Leigh
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:30PM
On 11 September 2013 15:39, Andrea Faulds <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm thinking, in particular, of something à la Reddit.com or Hacker News,
> by which I mean has hierarchical replies with an upvote/downvote system.
>

So why don't you just use reddit or hacker news instead of trying to create
yet another community? When you get an overwhelming influx of upvotes from
the random assortment of people there, you can bring your idea to the
mailing list.

Actually someone did that recently, regarding removing $ from variables.
They got shot down pretty quickly.

Personally I think having a forum would further lower the quality of
discussion, as it would attract drive-by discussions on totally inane
subjects.
Leszek Krupiński
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:30PM
On Sep 11, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Leszek Krupiński <[email protected]> wrote:

>> I think that it could be useful for the RFC process mainly. Sometimes someone will dominate a discussion but if they are doing so against the popular opinion on an issue it would significantly lower the impact of the dominator in a voting system.
>
> On the other hand, that could end up being tyranny of the majority. But I'm not a fan of forums, I think reddit-like systems are not good for the discussions of the like we have on internals (for the reasons I wrote before), and that's it :) If anyone likes and wants to set up the environment that wouldn't disrupt existing discussion patterns, who can stop him or her? :)

Oh, and I _loved_ usenet ;)

--Leszek


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Andrea Faulds
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:30PM
On 11/09/2013 16:24, Leigh wrote:
>
> So why don't you just use reddit or hacker news instead of trying to
> create yet another community? When you get an overwhelming influx of
> upvotes from the random assortment of people there, you can bring your
> idea to the mailing list.
>

I'm not trying to create a new community. Please read the backlog.

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Paul Taulborg
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:30PM
Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be, observe:
http://news.php.net/php.internals

1) We already have a basic/simple web interface.
2) This could be extended to have the features of forum software
(threading, sorting, searching, voting, filtering)
3) All email posts would go to the extended interface, and all posts made
on the web interface would be emailed to internals (in the same text format
it already is in).

This offers the advantages of:
- Able to view topics and history at a glance, instead of everyone storing
the whole history set of internals (etc) in their inboxes
- Inviting to new people that don't want to use a communication platform
from the 1990s (and don't want the limitations of the above email
setup/management)
- All the old die hard email mailing list only guys still get the usual,
nothing changes (except hopefully more positive activity!)

+ many more, as the sky is the limit with the features that could be done
for the web interface.

I understand this is a hugely personal and subjective thing, but both would
be one and the same in the end, other than the web interface offering
hugely distinct advantages that email simple cannot do.
Andrea Faulds
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:40PM
On 11/09/2013 16:25, Paul Taulborg wrote:
> Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be, observe:
> http://news.php.net/php.internals
>
> 1) We already have a basic/simple web interface.
> 2) This could be extended to have the features of forum software
> (threading, sorting, searching, voting, filtering)
> 3) All email posts would go to the extended interface, and all posts made
> on the web interface would be emailed to internals (in the same text format
> it already is in).
>
> This offers the advantages of:
> - Able to view topics and history at a glance, instead of everyone storing
> the whole history set of internals (etc) in their inboxes
> - Inviting to new people that don't want to use a communication platform
> from the 1990s (and don't want the limitations of the above email
> setup/management)
> - All the old die hard email mailing list only guys still get the usual,
> nothing changes (except hopefully more positive activity!)
>
> + many more, as the sky is the limit with the features that could be done
> for the web interface.
>
> I understand this is a hugely personal and subjective thing, but both would
> be one and the same in the end, other than the web interface offering
> hugely distinct advantages that email simple cannot do.
>

This is exactly what I've been thinking of. After suggesting earlier
making it a front-end over the mailing list, I started looking for
mailing list viewer packages. Ended up with news server viewing
packages. Then I realised - hey, we already have news.php.net!

So we should add that stuff to news.php.net, then? I suppose it would be
nice to be able to reply directly from there, too, then. Sending an
email or posting in a newsgroup can't be very hard from PHP, I'd imagine...

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Johannes Schlüter
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:40PM
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 09:16 -0600, Levi Morrison wrote:
> > Yes, I know those sites, but don't you think that internals is a different
> > kind of a discussion? First of all, the volume is different. We get two
> > obvious trolls a day? Meh. On the other hand, I could downvote a person
> > that has a different opinion than I do.
> >
>
> I think that it could be useful for the RFC process mainly. Sometimes
> someone will dominate a discussion but if they are doing so against the
> popular opinion on an issue it would significantly lower the impact of the
> dominator in a voting system.

Then stop arguing with the person.

And mind: A voting system does not help the ones interested in it as
they are early before many votes are there.
And then votes are unqualified -- a single "-1" doesn't tell much.

Arguments should be summarized in the RFC, ideally there is no reason to
read the full thread afterwards.

johannes



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Levi Morrison
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:40PM
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Johannes Schlüter
<[email protected]>wrote:

> On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 09:16 -0600, Levi Morrison wrote:
> > > Yes, I know those sites, but don't you think that internals is a
> different
> > > kind of a discussion? First of all, the volume is different. We get two
> > > obvious trolls a day? Meh. On the other hand, I could downvote a person
> > > that has a different opinion than I do.
> > >
> >
> > I think that it could be useful for the RFC process mainly. Sometimes
> > someone will dominate a discussion but if they are doing so against the
> > popular opinion on an issue it would significantly lower the impact of
> the
> > dominator in a voting system.
>
> Then stop arguing with the person.
>

I actually participate very little -- I'm mostly a quiet reader. This is
something I've observed and think is a serious issue. As such I've publicly
asked some people to stop dominating the discussion where I felt it is
necessary.
Matthieu Napoli
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:40PM
Le 11/09/2013 17:15, Hartmut Holzgraefe a écrit :
> My greatest concern personally would be the lack of an offline option.
>
> Not that I do matter in current affairs anymore at all, but back in the
> days a lot of the work I've done on PHP code, documentation and mailing
> lists and newsgroups (yes, we had working UseNet groups at some point)
> has happened offline while i was sitting on long distant trains.
>
> Especially catching up with email is something that works very well
> while not being distracted by "being online"
>
> So anything that doesn't support offline interaction would be a big
> show stopper for me if I were still active here ...

Here I am again talking about discourse (this time in the correct
thread) but, as they said in June:

> mailing list replacement is on our top 3 goals list; will take some
time to get there, but reply-by-email is coming fairly soon.

https://twitter.com/discourse/status/342534886030184449

Since June, I don't know what has changed, but replacing mailing lists
is clearly one of the top goal of discourse (it's on there home page).

That would allow anyone to use indifferently emails or the web interface.

There is also the concept of +1 a post, however I don't know if it's
possible to have a "tree" view like in Reddit.

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Levi Morrison
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:40PM
>
> Yes, I know those sites, but don't you think that internals is a different
>> kind of a discussion? First of all, the volume is different. We get two
>> obvious trolls a day? Meh. On the other hand, I could downvote a person
>> that has a different opinion than I do.
>>
>
> I think that it could be useful for the RFC process mainly. Sometimes
> someone will dominate a discussion but if they are doing so against the
> popular opinion on an issue it would significantly lower the impact of the
> dominator in a voting system.
>
>
> On the other hand, that could end up being tyranny of the majority. But
> I'm not a fan of forums, I think reddit-like systems are not good for the
> discussions of the like we have on internals (for the reasons I wrote
> before), and that's it :) If anyone likes and wants to set up the
> environment that wouldn't disrupt existing discussion patterns, who can
> stop him or her? :)
>

I feel that we have a lot of 'silent' people reading the list. If they had
some way they can quietly voice their opinion that would greatly benefit
everyone. My thinking is that voting can allow that to happen without
creating noise. I am open to other suggestions that would facilitate quiet
contribution.
Lester Caine
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 05:50PM
Paul Taulborg wrote:
> Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be, observe:
> http://news.php.net/php.internals
>
> 1) We already have a basic/simple web interface.
> 2) This could be extended to have the features of forum software
> (threading, sorting, searching, voting, filtering)

Is that really still running on 2004 code?
Perfect example of if it's not broken don't fix it :)

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-----------------------------
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Paul Taulborg
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 06:10PM
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Lester Caine <[email protected]> wrote:

> Paul Taulborg wrote:
>
>> Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be, observe:
>> http://news.php.net/php.internals
>>
>> 1) We already have a basic/simple web interface.
>> 2) This could be extended to have the features of forum software
>> (threading, sorting, searching, voting, filtering)
>>
>
> Is that really still running on 2004 code?
> Perfect example of if it's not broken don't fix it :)


Then throw it away and only use the code from the 1990s and stick to email
mailing lists only for a language that is ubiquitous for web software.

Clearly it is broken, which is why this topic and Wake Up are the most
active this group has seen in the last year, in only a few hours of time.
Leigh
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 06:40PM
On 11 September 2013 17:00, Paul Taulborg <[email protected]> wrote:

> Clearly it is broken, which is why this topic and Wake Up are the most
> active this group has seen in the last year, in only a few hours of time.
>

I'm going to generalise a lot, and there are obviously exceptions, however
most of the users who are active in these threads are ones you don't see
generally posting on the list at all. I don't find it strange that everyone
rushing to contribute how wonderful a "forum" would be have not contributed
much to many other discussions here, while many of those who state they do
not see any benefit in a "forum" are mostly very regular contributors to
both the list and the language.

I get it, a lot of people feel the discussions here are inaccessible, and
these threads are "easy to contribute to". This is the internals list, and
I personally feel that the content _should_ be above that of a general
users list. A list about how PHP works / should work under the hood is akin
to a list about brain surgery on humans. I certainly wouldn't go to a brain
surgery list and expect to just jump into the discussions. However if I had
a well researched, well written and valid question, I'm sure I'd get a
response.

I'm not saying this list does not have it's problems. I don't think a
change in format will do anything positive for it though.
Lester Caine
Re: [PHP-DEV] Forum software
September 11, 2013 07:10PM
Paul Taulborg wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Lester Caine <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> Paul Taulborg wrote:
>
> Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be, observe:
> http://news.php.net/php.internals
>
> 1) We already have a basic/simple web interface.
> 2) This could be extended to have the features of forum software
> (threading, sorting, searching, voting, filtering)
>
> Is that really still running on 2004 code?
> Perfect example of if it's not broken don't fix it :)
>
> Then throw it away and only use the code from the 1990s and stick to email
> mailing lists only for a language that is ubiquitous for web software.
>
> Clearly it is broken, which is why this topic and Wake Up are the most active
> this group has seen in the last year, in only a few hours of time.

Totally ignoring that comment ...

Does anybody have access to the source code for news.php.net? None of the links
seem to be functional now.
I am assuming that this is not actually running ON PHP? colobus is in perl, but
the rewrites n the notes are for .php , however at that age I would assume PHP4?

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-----------------------------
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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