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[PHP-DEV] PHP's mail servers suck

Posted by Sara Golemon 
Sara Golemon
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP's mail servers suck
November 08, 2017 03:10PM
On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf <[email protected]> wrote:
> Our smtp servers are actually quite well maintained by Sascha and company.
>
This is a response from the mail server, with no mailing list software involved.
This is a regular response covering years.
This is response which has been reported to no effect.

Action: failed
Status: 5.7.1
Remote-MTA: dns; php-smtp2.php.net. (2a02:cb41::8, the server for the
domain php.net.)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.1 Looks like spam to me.
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 04:49:54 -0800 (PST)

Yay that Sacha dealt with a slew of spam, but that's irrelevant to the
false-positives problem. If a sender using a php.net address can't
send an email containing a php.net URL through php.net servers without
looking like spam, then the configuration is broken.

-Sara

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Rasmus Lerdorf
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP's mail servers suck
November 08, 2017 03:20PM
So please report that directly to [email protected] (that's what it is there for)
and cc [email protected] specifically since he maintains php-smtp2. And php-smtp2 has
been around less than a year, so if you haven't reported it since the
changeover they probably never saw a report.

-Rasmus

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Sara Golemon <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Our smtp servers are actually quite well maintained by Sascha and
> company.
> >
> This is a response from the mail server, with no mailing list software
> involved.
> This is a regular response covering years.
> This is response which has been reported to no effect.
>
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.7.1
> Remote-MTA: dns; php-smtp2.php.net. (2a02:cb41::8, the server for the
> domain php.net.)
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.1 Looks like spam to me.
> Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 04:49:54 -0800 (PST)
>
> Yay that Sacha dealt with a slew of spam, but that's irrelevant to the
> false-positives problem. If a sender using a php.net address can't
> send an email containing a php.net URL through php.net servers without
> looking like spam, then the configuration is broken.
>
> -Sara
>
Sara Golemon
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP's mail servers suck
November 08, 2017 03:40PM
On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf <[email protected]> wrote:
> So please report that directly to [email protected] (that's what it is there for) and
> cc [email protected] specifically since he maintains php-smtp2. And php-smtp2 has been
> around less than a year, so if you haven't reported it since the changeover
> they probably never saw a report.
>
Yes, I'm aware of the [email protected] distribution list. As you well know
I've emailed it many times about various concerns, MOST of which are
promptly responded to. This one has never been dealt with, hence the
public shaming. The email server got replaced recently? Great,
doesn't mean it fixed anything.

If being an asshole publicly gets me the same response as being polite
privately, then I might as well be public about it.

-Sara

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Rasmus Lerdorf
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP's mail servers suck
November 08, 2017 04:00PM
It isn't super-helpful to publicly shame our active volunteers.

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Sara Golemon <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf <[email protected]> wrote:
> > So please report that directly to [email protected] (that's what it is there
> for) and
> > cc [email protected] specifically since he maintains php-smtp2. And php-smtp2 has
> been
> > around less than a year, so if you haven't reported it since the
> changeover
> > they probably never saw a report.
> >
> Yes, I'm aware of the [email protected] distribution list. As you well know
> I've emailed it many times about various concerns, MOST of which are
> promptly responded to. This one has never been dealt with, hence the
> public shaming. The email server got replaced recently? Great,
> doesn't mean it fixed anything.
>
> If being an asshole publicly gets me the same response as being polite
> privately, then I might as well be public about it.
>
> -Sara
>
Sara Golemon
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP's mail servers suck
November 08, 2017 04:30PM
On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf <[email protected]> wrote:
> It isn't super-helpful to publicly shame our active volunteers.
>
There are many not-super-helpful things here, for example:

Ignoring an inability to subscribe to the mailing list for YEARS isn't
super helpful.
Preventing project discussion from happening on the project mailing
list isn't super helpful.
Pretending that nothing is wrong isn't super helpful.
Allowing the ranks of [email protected] to shrink, but never grow isn't super-helpful.
Focusing on "the mail server and the mailing list are two different
things" rather than addressing or even acknowledging real issues isn't
super-helpful.
[email protected] having literally no idea how to add authorized senders to
moderated lists isn't super-helpful.

-Sara

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